Chivalry, Protectiveness, and Different Kinds Of Strength (ft. more about Hadestown)

(Image credit to owner)

It has come to my attention that because I'm crap at intros, I've just been skipping them. And I'm sure this is irritating, but hey. I don't know what to say in an introduction to a post. Like. Hi. I'm here. I want to talk about Hadestown. I hope you enjoy. (And...this is why I don't write introductions.)


One of the things which struck me most when I was watching Hadestown (on Broadway! I am still not over this! I'm sorry, because I'm sure it's obnoxious!) was the way the physical relationship between Orpheus and Eurydice worked. 

First of all, their first duet, when she's singing "all I've ever known is how to hold my own/Now I want to hold you, too", despite the words, or maybe in addition to them, she's still skittish. She's never been held by or held a man in her life, and she's not sure...she doesn't know what it's like, it feels dangerous. And Orpheus lets her waffle a little. He lets her know that he wants to hold her, he pursues her, but he lets her duck out, he doesn't try to grab her. And it felt so true to me, both her fear, and his accommodation. It was really sweet. 

But that's not especially the point of this post. So, second of all...

Whenever there was something dangerous going on, Orpheus would take Eurydice and hold her. Just, there, with his arms around her, either from the front, or the back. And it was THE SWEETEST. He wanted to protect her. He wanted her to know that he was there. He wanted to be sure that nothing would happen to her. 

Sometimes, he'd even get himself in between her and whatever was threatening, either pushing her behind him, or while holding her, shifting his body between her and danger.

And she, on the other hand, welcomed his arms, and when something was very menacing, would often hide her face in his chest. 

This wasn't just a one-time thing...it happened several times through the course of the musical. 

And it surprised me in a really good way. Not just because, um, it was adorable. (Which it was.) But also, because in this day and age, it's not especially "correct" for a man to try to protect a woman. It's not "correct" for a woman to admit that she'd like that kind of comfort...or that a man is stronger than her and actually able to protect her. (But see, men are physically stronger than women 90% or more of the time. This is just a fact.)

And yet, here, in a Broadway musical, is a man physically protecting a woman, and her welcoming this from him. 

Obviously, he fails sometimes. He's human, and not especially strong in virtue, as I talked about in this post. He could have protected her physically in a different way, by making sure she had food and fire at the end of the first act, so she didn't end up going down to Hadestown. 

And even when he doesn't fail, he has limits. One of my favorite motifs in the musical comes in in the beginning and then is brought back towards the end--in the beginning, she wants a promise that "you'll hold me forever...the wind will never change on us...we'll stay with each other...it'll always be like this". But after her trials in the Underworld, when he comes to rescue her (okay, and can we acknowledge how cute it is when the "come home with me" motif is reintroduced? It's ADORABLE), she's changed. They've both changed. They know that no matter what happens, tomorrow is never guaranteed. So, he acknowledges that he can't promise her any of those things, except to "walk beside you, love, anyway the wind blows". And she says in return, "[I just] need a steady hand to hold...just walk beside me love, any way the wind blows." 

She knows he isn't perfect, but he is the Strong Protector, and she wishes for and welcomes his physical protection. Even when the world is uncertain...maybe especially when the world is uncertain.

This post is mostly meant to be me rambling about how beautiful his protection of her is, and how much we need chivalry in today's world, BUT there is a fun twist here that I'd like to note. As I talked about a little bit in my last Hadestown post, she takes a hand in protecting him--or trying to--as well. Just not physically. She's his backup, his source of strength, especially mentally. She can get him out of his feelings of self-doubt and even self-loathing at times, she can see the best in him, and she brings that out in him. Which cultivation of the best in him is, I think a manifestation of feminine genius. But THAT is a major tangent. ;) 

Back to chivalry. I think that even though the world in general denies that women can't do anything that men can do (something blatantly false, even if you just look at men's vs. women's sports), masculine care and tenderness (expressed in physical care, usually) is something the feminine heart longs for. I mean I can only speak for myself...and it's definitely something that I find endearing, admirable, and, heh, occasionally a bit romantic.

Chivalry in an everyday sense--holding doors, walking on the outside of the sidewalk, pulling out chairs, &c--wasn't something I had really encountered until I wound up at a big college Newman Center, with a bunch of rather traditionally minded Catholic men. And I'd be walking somewhere, and they'd switch to the other side, so they were walking between me and the street. They'd reach for the doorhandle when we got to a building (to the point where I started to expect that from my non-Catholic acquaintances in my major, with somewhat embarrassing results on occasion!). I've had a chair pulled out for a time or two. I have one guy friend with whom I'll compete on trying to get to the doorhandle first--and he just won't let me! There are also a couple of guys who get downright itchy if one of their female friends walks on the street side of the sidewalk.

Oh, and they will never let one of the women walk alone at night, if they can help it.

And it's beautiful. 

(Even though I am a black belt, and perfectly capable of taking care of myself, even at night, and even on a college campus.)

Specifically, chivalry and physical protection are beautiful because they show a genuine respect--and sometimes love, too, as in Orpheus & Eurydice's case--for the feminine person which is really lacking in the modern world. 

Especially on a college campus, there's just not a whole lot of respect for women, and for their dignity. In a world where women are expected to wear revealing clothing... In a world where women are denied entry into "social clubs" because they're not pretty enough... In a world where catcalling is common... In a world where (secular) women are expected to sleep with men on the third or fifth date... In a world where 1/5 of women are assaulted during college...

...would it be too much to ask for a little more respect from men? In our quest for an acknowledgment of our fundamental human equality, have we erred in lowering our standards for the respect we receive?

I would say that it's not too much to ask, and yes, we have erred, in a way.

It's not just about physical protection (although it can be--men are designed, physically and psychologically, to be protectors, and that is a beautiful thing). 

But, as Fr. J very cogently told me one time when he was insisting on walking on the street side of the sidewalk, "it's not that we don't think you can open the door, or pull out your own chair, or walk on the sidewalk without getting hurt. We know you can do those things. It's that it's our role to do those things when we can."

It's not just about physical protection; it's also about respect. 

Respect that Orpheus shows for Eurydice during their first duet.

Respect that we need to revive. Let's get back some old-fashioned chivalry!


Ladies, tell me about a time a man has showed you chivalry! Gentlemen, if any read my blog, please tell me how you feel about this whole thing! ;)

Comments

  1. I must say I feel a bit of a failure with your inability to write an intro. :( (jk ;-)

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    1. It certainly wasn't for lack of trying on your part!

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  2. I like this post. I feel like I don't have much to say (but we'll see...my comments have a way of getting away from me :P), but I like it. Chivalry is wonderful. I have been rubbed wrong by guys being "chivalrous" a few times when they were just kind of...being pushy? And I remember going on a date (IT WAS AN ACCIDENT--I think I've told you about this) one time with a guy who was very "chivalrous" in that he got doors for me, paid for my dinner, said the right things, etc, etc, but I could very clearly tell that he was just doing it because he wanted something from me, if that makes sense? Like, he was a gentleman but only because he was smart enough to understand that girls like to be treated like ladies and therefore that's the best way to get what you want from them. Not because he actually respected me or my femininity.

    So yeah. In the end, it's about respect. I know guys who don't hold the door for me, aren't unfailingly polite, have DROPPED ME while we were swing-dancing (I am not letting this go...ever. XD)...and yet they respect me; they respect me because I am me and because I am a woman; and I know it. I've been in situations with some of them where they've very quietly but clearly (if you were paying attention) shown that they are looking out for me. And I really respect and appreciate them because of it, even though on the surface you might not suspect them of chivalry. XD

    Women who are like "I can get the door for myself!!" really annoy me because no one's saying you can't. And you know what? I can drive a tractor, I can lift feed sacks, I can swing a hammer and I can change my oil. When guys aren't around and these things need to be done, I do them. But when guys are around and automatically do this stuff for me, I like it! I appreciate it! It's wonderful! It doesn't offend me at all; it actually makes me feel kinda special! So yeah, I really like chivalry and I wish it wasn't so...unpopular. But at least (where I live) it's not exactly dying.

    I must say, your bit about if-Orpheus-was-really-doing-a-good-job-at-chivalry-he'd-have-taken-care-of-her-actual-pressing-physical-needs made me think, because like I'm a quiet person and I'm not going to ADVERTISE TO YOU the fact that I need this or that, but if I do and you don't help, you just open a door for me and tell me how pretty my eyes are? It's probably not your chivalry I'm going to be thinking about on my way home. Just saying. XD

    Also girls really do lower their standards. I forget if I've told you this, but I knew a girl at college who raved about how wonderful her boyfriend was--I was skeptical because her details were THE BARE MINIMUM your boyfriend, or honestly even a good friend, should do for you--and then she ran away with him and then was back six months later because turned out he was an abusive jerk. And I was like, I kind of wondered. And I kind of think that girls are often tricked into lowering their standards, until "not abusive (yet anyway)" becomes the pinnacle and they're so much more likely to come to grief when they don't hold men to the standard they ought to hold them to. And it's sad because it's not really their fault but at the same time it is.

    Because I have absolutely found that when you are modest, and principled, and have high standards, people respect you for it. You don't have to trade all that away for respect. You just...don't. But so many women don't realize that.

    Okay. I'm not sure if this comment had a point. I greatly enjoyed reading your thoughts on chivalry, though, and rambling away about my own. I think the bottom line (for me) is sort of that chivalry is a combination of personal respect and respect for a girl *because she's a girl*, and that's what makes it so nice.

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    1. Why thank you!

      I would agree that there are some men who try too hard to be chivalrous for the sake of getting women’s attention, or…for other reasons? I feel like there are guys who are chivalrous because it’s a Traditional Thing, not because they respect women—I don’t know if you’ve ever run into that version, but it’s a thing, too. (I think it’s quite a bit less toxic than the kind of chivalry that’s trying to get something from a woman, but I think those men still need to grow in actual appreciation of women, not just Trying To Look Cool And Old-Fashioned. I dunno. Thoughts?)

      It is absolutely about respect! And I think when a guy is truly doing something out of respect, it’s obvious, because he’s not going to be noisy about it. I think in the other two cases we’re talking about, the guys often are Trying To Call Attention To Themselves, but when there’s real respect there, it’ll be more unobtrusive. So it can be harder to notice, but it’s the more beautiful for that, I think. (And they’ll be chivalrous even when they’re unhappy with you, too. There was an instance recently—you can probably figure out the context for this—when I was walking with one of the guys I know, and we were in a very tense situation, and we started walking down the sidewalk, and I was on the outside, and he said, “get on the inside,” in a voice that made it clear that we were still in a tense situation, but he was still going to show me that respect. He wasn’t trying to impress me at that moment—it was just part of his character.)

      I KNOW! Me, too. No one is saying that women are incapable of anything! Men have seen women open doors, lol! They know you can, sweetie, just let them be kind to you! (It’s not exactly dying, here, either, so maybe I’d say this is more of an appreciation post? Good either way, I think.)

      EXACTLY. If there’s a pressing issue that needs to be taken care of, and it’s only the open door that gets taken care of, that’s not being chivalrous. Chivalry is more about respect than it is about the Exact Form That Respect Takes, I think, although opening doors and physical protection are definitely part of that.

      Oh my goodness, that is really scary! Women totally do lower their standards, and I can definitely see, as a woman, where that temptation comes from—I think sometimes we feel the complementarity and need for a partner of the opposite sex more than men do? I don’t know if that’s true for every woman, but sometimes I get irritated with myself about that. XD So I can see how it’s easy for a woman to be like “oh, there’s this guy, he likes me, this should be great” (I haven’t ever done exactly that, but being at college, as I’m sure you’re aware, there are PLENTY of examples) and then it’s NOT great. When all that could have been fixed by having higher standards.

      Which are totally worth it, in my opinion, even if they’re not easy to maintain.

      I’ve enjoyed reading your comment, too! Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts, and I hope my reply has been cohesive, too! (I’ve been writing it while a professor rambles on in class, lol.)

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  3. I love this! So refreshing to read. :)

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  4. THIS. I love it so much. As you know, I got to see Hadestown recently, and *heart eyes* Orpheus and Eurydice were SO CUTE. Like...I was surprised at myself for finding them so cute. Cuz it was so...passionate? And often in our entertainment culture, passionate = warning to avert your eyes? But these two are passionate AND wholesome. And this post goes a long way explaining why.

    Also:

    "Come home with me?"

    I'M DYING, SAM. *sobs* *and sobs some more* *happy sobs* *and sad sobs*

    As for examples of chivalry...one time I went with a group of girl friends to a party hosted by my friend and her then-fiancé, and I was just so impressed how he took our coats and, at the end of the night, pulled up our cars for us (it was raining). It was just...so good. Because sometimes guys /can/ act super "gentlemanly" from mixed motives, but that's obviously not what was going on here.

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    1. Ah, I'm so glad you like it!! Orpheus and Eurydice are indeed ADORABLE, and that was one of the things that made me happy when I saw it, too. They just...have such a wholesome presence, while yes, also being passionate. And it's excellent.

      *sobs with you*

      Aww, that really sweet! And it's not just a token chivalric thing, either--pulling up cars is No Small Thing, not like opening a door or something (although that's a good thing, as well) and it speaks really well of him that he was willing to do that!

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